Discussion > Oxford BH Pub Meet
I'll see if I can get a pass......
Perhaps ask Mark Lynas?
Barry Woods
Barry, ask anyone you like, but articulate warmists are especially welcome as we do not want it to be an echo chamber for deniers, sceptics, lukewarmers or anybody else.
(Of course, if you know the evil wellfunded denialist machine's email, get them to come too.)
For those who like the idea but can't make it, consider using this thread to suggest a similar meeting in your area.
rhoda
Possible Park & Rides are:
OX3 8DP Thornihill Park & Ride:Mon-Fri First bus from Thornihill at 06:00hrs, last bus back 23:00hrs
OX2 8JD Pear Tree Park & Ride:Mon-Fri First bus from Pear Tree at 06:00hrs, last bus back 23:33hrs
OX2 0HP Seacourt Park & Ride: Mon-Fri First bus from Seacourt at 06:00hrs, last bus back 23:08hrs.
No good are:
Water Eaton Park & Ride: Mon-Sat First bus from Water Eaton at 07:00hrs, last bus back 19:05hrs
Redbridge Park & Ride: Mon-Fri First bus from Redbridge at 06:00hrs, last bus back 20:00hrs.
I hope I will be able to get there... do we have to carry a broken hockey stick?
matthu
Would love to come but Thursday next week is a no-no for me because of family (grandkids) commitments.
Enjoy the KA. Happy memories of the mad woman behind the food counter in the mid1970s who used to be a wee bit tiddly while serving up the sausage egg and chips. A true illustration of Schrodinger's Cat syndrome...you never knew if what you were going to get bore any resemblance to what you had ordered until it arrived and you saw it.
Latimer Alder
In line with Rhoda's suggestion, is anybody in SW London, NW Surrey, NE Hampshire Berks etc interested in a get together maybe in Kingston or Woking?
Latimer Alder
Just on the off-chance, anyone in the Ticino or Zurich area Switzerland? Thought not...
I do hope there'll be another event in the UK, with enough notice that I could get there... got the idea last year when a bunch of you met at a Bishop appearance, with pub after... was I ever envious. I still remember your discussions of how to recognize each other and Josh said he looked "alarmingly like Monbiot"
Kendra
A reminder that some of us will be down the pub from 7pm tomorrow (Thursday). I will probably be eating there and if so will arrive earlier.
If you don't know what any of us look like then there is a picture of me at http://nmr.physics.ox.ac.uk/ which is fairly true to life.
Jonathan Jones
I will be there - bringing my partner - but coming some way so unlikely to arrive before 7. We would probably like to join anyone be eating there as well.
matthu
Well ... if there *was* anyone there, I did not recognise you! I spent a fair while trying to spot anybody looking even mildly sceptical but to be honest - I didn't spot anybody. (The venison burger was good though.) We left about 8:20 ...
matthu
Matthu, sorry you missed us; we were in a group of six sitting by the bar. We will have to arrange better recognition signals for next time.
Jonathan Jones
Jonathan and Rhoda: thanks for organising. Barry, Philip & Ben: great to meet and chew the fat.
Richard Drake
Richard,
I'll second that, and look forward to the next outing!
Philip Richens
Maybe some kind of subtle code is needed to aid recognition.
On the other hand, I suppose one does have to be aware of possible spies.
Hope to make it sometime.
Paul Matthews
"Maybe some kind of subtle code is needed to aid recognition. "
Surely all you need to do is carry your copies of The Hockey Stick Illusion in a conspicuous manner?
:-)
Nial
Well, I for one think it's worth doing again. Although you'd think six people was going to lead to at the most three simultaneous conversations, it seems the correct number is fifteen. Jonathan J comes up with ideas at 900 miles an hour and I can only accept about a thirty-eighth of that rate, but never mind. We planned for two hours and stayed for the best part of four. We will need a new venue as it looks like it will be termtime in Oxford before we can manage it again.
rhoda
Agreeing recognition signals does not work! We had extensive discussions before that Guardian debate in London and consistant with our decisions I arrived carrying my HSI copy, plus I wore a T shirt about BP destroying the environment and finally I carried a hockey stick. Everyone else dressed respectably and I looked a right plonker >.<
However every cloud etc etc, I got my HSI signed by Steve McIntyre and by waving my hockey stick vigorously I got to ask a question.
Dung
All present were probably lukewarmers. No deniers, some concern that deniers and alternative theory people don't do our cause any good. P{ersonally I don't think we ought to be seeking any consesus or common position beyond disbelief in CAGW. I don't feel responsible if an iron sun believer posts on WUWT or someone here thinks all the IR sums are wrong. Proper sceptical arguments shoulnd confront the CAGW people, and they should be debating science and policy, not seeking nutters to colour the rest of us with.
Anyhow, the most interesting discussion to me is the end game. How will the struggle continue. If I attribute opinions to others here and get them wrong, I stand to be corrected. It seemed to me that Richard Drake and Philip Richens want to win on the science. Kill the other side's fake arguments, get down to real science and come up with the truth. Ben and Barry seem to want to contest the advocacy aspect. Challenge every tweet and blog, every bit of propaganda, every journalist who has taken sides but purports to be even-handed.
Jonathan Jones says all we have to do is wait, and by 2020 we'll know who is right or wrong. I say..well, I'd better put that in the duck recognition thread.
rhoda
Rhoda
You continue to ask the right questions IMHO. If we continue to rely on arguing the science we get nowhere because we (the sceptics/deniers/whatever) have already won the big arguments but nothing changes.
I am indeed interested in the argument on an (my lowly) intellectual level but what makes me angry is the amount of our taxes being spent junk renewable energy, the percentage of those taxes currently sloshing around in various troughs and the fact that our truly enormous shale deposits are being sat on while the country goes to the dogs.
I think nailing the snouts in the trough is an achievable goal that will also destroy credibility of the opposition.
Dung
Not quite an accurate record of what I tried to say on Thursday Rhoda. I was taking Jonathan's point about it all being over in 2020 if there's no significant warming by then and asking what should follow. There needs at that point, I said, to be a wide-ranging appraisal in how science is done. Jonathan said something very clear in reply and it wasn't highly encouraging - but as I don't think it's right to share stuff others say in a pub meet the trail will have to go cold there.
My concern has been the corruption of science, yes, but by far my main concern in the AGW debate has been the burden put on the poorest in the world by our shoddy science and policy making. Which was one of the reasons I asked Ben Pile about Martin Durkin, who brought this point home so well in the Great Global Warming Swindle in 2007. Wow, over five years ago.
It seemed to me that Richard Drake and Philip Richens want to win on the science. Kill the other side's fake arguments, get down to real science and come up with the truth.
That's wrong at a number of levels but it was great to meet you. Till next time :)
Richard Drake
Richard, it was not my intention to represent your views which you are obviously perfectly capable of doing for yourself. It was my fleeting impression of your views in a fast-moving conversation subject to failure of comprehension. Thanks for straightening me out.
rhoda
Guys
Sorry I couldn't make it this time...but would love to join you next time. Please make sure I get an invite.
Dung
You looked great at the Climategate debate. And there was absolutely no doubt about where your opinions lay!
Latimer Alder
Richard Drake:
Which was one of the reasons I asked Ben Pile about Martin Durkin, who brought this point home so well in the Great Global Warming Swindle in 2007. Wow, over five years ago.
I think we must be due for a GGWS II ?
A TV dramatisation starting with Madrid 1995 and following the story to present day. The tension, the politics, the sub plots, the consequences, Climategate, the heroes and villains. We know so much more than we did 5 years ago.
About 6 months before GGWS I remember writing to the Channel 4 news team. The Channel 4 news forum was about the only place where AGW was being discussed and debated. The Channel 4 news forum was shutdown years ago but during its lifetime it went from having no skeptics to providing highly skeptical debates supported by good empirical evidence. The public debate at that time was almost non existent and the acceptance of AGW theory amongst the media was absolute. I knew the Channel 4 news team were monitoring the debates on their forums and in my email to the editorial team I pleaded with CH4 to give some public air time to the scientific arguments being made. I played on their record of not shying away from controversial subject matter and I argued that this would make an ideal subject for a documentary. Now, please don't get the idea that I think I was responsible for catalysing the making of GGWS, I wasn't. It takes more than 6 months to put something like that together. However, I do think the power of the channel 4's forum combined with the ability of a relatively independently minded TV company to make a program was a winning combination. It is a shame that we do not have the same opportunity to make a similar impact on mainstream TV today. Something worth thinking about.
Chairman Al
At the suggestion of Rhoda, the first Oxford BH Pub Meet is planned for Thursday 30th August from 7pm-9pm in the King's Arms, aka the KA (central Oxford, on the corner of Parks Road and Holywell Street at the crossroads with Broad Street and Catte Street).
All are welcome and there is no agenda beyond beer and conviviality. (Some people have expressed an interest in more regular or more formal meetings, but there are no plans for anything along those lines at this stage.)
The KA is easily reached on foot from bus stops and the train station. Car parking in Oxford is notoriously difficult and expensive, but there is metered on-street parking on Broad Street, Parks Road by Wadham College (nearest), and Mansfield Road by Mansfield College (probably easiest). Food is easily available, either at the KA or from a host of cafes/sandwich shops near by. The KA is horribly busy during university terms, but reasonably quiet at the moment.